Aided by Chris Verboncouer, who rewrote the team record book, Tallyho's strong 2010 season earned it a higher divisional assignment for 2011. (Courtesy of Tallyho)
The Divisional meets that each local swim league held either last weekend or will this weekend are some of the crowning moments of the season, a chance for swimmers to show they are peaking at the right time.
They also, however, play a big role in determining how next year might unfold, and it’s a tricky balance for some teams.
While each league assigns teams to divisions differently, all leagues base their alignment according to the previous season’s results. By the end of this weekend, every league will have a good idea of how its alignment will look next summer.
For example, the Montgomery County Swim League held its divisional meet last Saturday, and by the end of the weekend, league organizers, using a formula based largely upon each team’s performance this summer, had division assignments for each team for 2011.
Seldom is there much dramatic movement. Teams may move up or down a division, but, like most youth sports, success is contagious, both to the benefit and detriment of a program.
Tallyho, for example, competed in MCSL Division G (the seventh of MCSL’s 15 divisions) this year, after spending last year in Division F, and 2008 in G. After winning four of its five dual meets, tying for second at its relay carnival and winning its divisional meet, Tallyho was bumped three divisions higher to Division D next year. It was the highest division the team had been assigned since 1999, according to its coach Richard Rothstein.
“You’re not worried so much about next year” heading into the divisional meet, Rothstein said. “You just want to swim your best and place your best that day. As an athlete, though, you always want to be challenged, so swimming in a higher division will give you that.”
One of the reasons why Tallyho scored so well this summer was Chris Verboncouer, who ended his career holding every team individual and medley record and will swim for Virginia Tech in the fall. Verboncouer’s accomplishments were factored into Tallyho’s division assignment next year even though he won’t be competing anymore.
“It would be better if they could age everyone up, but it’s so hard to predict,” Rothstein said. “You could have a lot of great 12-year-old boys, but also have a bunch of 11 year-olds who didn’t even swim, but are also really strong. You never know how strong you’re going to be the following year.”
In the Northern Virginia Swimming League, Brookfield struggled last season, going winless in Division 7 and tumbled down to Division 10 this season. Swimming against lesser competition, the Breakers won four of their five dual meets heading into Saturday’s Divisional.
But Brookfield Coach Chris Schwindt said his team isn’t looking to this weekend to try to bolster its standing for next season.
“We look toward the following year, definitely, but during the season, all you want is kids dropping times,” Schwindt said. “Fortunately, we had a good season and we were in an appropriate division.”
Divisional placement, Schwindt said, could have varying impacts on his team. Place a team in a division too talented, and while the swimmers will get a tougher challenge at each meet, they could also see their confidence crushed as they watch one opponent after another hit the wall before them.
“You want to have your kids do well on the season and usually that’s based on times,” Schwindt said. “But with the younger kids, especially, they base their swimming on how they place. So if they finish second, they’re pretty happy, even if they add a couple seconds to their time.
“In the end, you don’t want to be too high up. It could kill the team morale if you’re placed in the wrong division.”
stats corner
The Foxes had an awesome season. A division wide meet where one team (Tally Ho) is behind by a point and a half at half time and then wins by a point and a half . . . that is truly exciting. Chris, the other record setting swimmers, and all the other Foxes did a great job. FoxFan
These 15-18 Boys in divison G showed spectators some of the best races in division G: Chris Verboncoeur, Patrick Scordato, Tyler Pham and Eric Ruggieri; all of them have raced each other for many years in PVS, MCSL and High School swimming. Chris, Tyler and Patrick have been under the titulage of NTG Coach Vekeman of RMSC (MAC) for a few years, while Eric is with the same program at MLK.
I’m pretty sure Divisionals has no effect on seeding for next year in the MCSL.
These guys are good, but they’re not in the same league as the Rockville or Tilden Woods 15-18 year olds.
NVSL divs arent scored
RV dad is probably right. The four boys mentioned in the article aren’t in the same league as the Rockville or Tilden Woods boys. The Division H boys are pretty much across the board faster. Now, if you include all of Division A, with the very talented Flower Valley older boys, the Division A teams certainly have more depth. But that’s kind of what you’d expect from Division A. Rockville obviously has the strongest team in MCSL, but maybe they could live with the fact that they are not the absolute fastest swimmers in every age group in every event.
I think you should write an article about how Rockville has gone from an average H division team to winning A division every year through community bonding.
Divisional times do not count in the seedongs for the next year at all
Only duel meet results.
as a parent, I had tears in my eyes getting to see my son hold the A division trophy up for the first time with the Rays. all those long drives from poolesville were worth it.
a lot of people complain about Rockville and their “lack of team spirit” not being fun. you know what is fun: winning.
I know rockville won A once again, but you wouldn’t have known that during the trophy presentation. There was a huge cheer when their name was announced. the people celebrating were doing so as if it was their first time winning.
WOW! A Division trophy! Won by swimmers mostly from RMSC. Unbelievable.
If you know anything about the history of the league or any league for that matter, you know that everything runs in cycles. When the league first began, Cederbrook won at least five years in a row. Flower Valley spent over 20 consecutive years in A Division, winning, at one time A division 5 years in a row, in 10 years, from 1985 – 1994, Darnestown went 47-3, won 5 straight A Division titles and won 34 straight meets. The league wanted to split the team in half. Because their was no pool between Darnestown and Poolesville all of those families swam at Darnestown. Damascus had a great run in the late 90′s. In the Country Club league Kenwood won Country Club Champs over 10 years in a row and didn’t lose a dual meet in forever, in the NVSL, Overlee didn’t lose a meet for ten years, in Prince Mont, Bel Pre didn’t lose a meet in over ten years. I will bet that the number of year round swimmers on those teams had more to do with their success than anything. No one complained, no one argued about their membership. At their time they were the bench mark, the ones with a target on their back. I remember when Flower Valley broke Darnestown’s winning streak, I’ve never seen so many tears, from both teams and parents. It meant so much. In that meet over 70 swimmers all swam on the same year round team and swam together at the same site. After the meet everyone stayed at Flower Valley and had lunch together, it was amazing. All of the summer leagues are special and each team is unique in their own way. Celebrate your success and enjoy each other, teammates, families and competitors. It only only lasts for 7 weeks!!!!
Harrison Gu had some great swims yesterday. I assume he’ll be going to RM since that’s the closest school. The RM Rockets are getting a heck of a swimmer.
Add a “annual dues” fee to the mix of $300 like most pools and Rockville drops right back to Division H. Those kids are swimming for the Rays for the wrong reasons.
Coach Greene, those teams did not use loopholes to win titles. When no one cheers when they announce who won Division A, something is wrong.
…or, it just proves the point about Rockville not being a real “team” like most of the MCSL.
As much of a cult as Tilden Woods, River Falls or other teams, they are unified and they show the true spirit of the MCSL.
MCSL lover, I do not know what side of the pool you sat on, but I applauded with the rest of the Rockville team when they announced who won. In fact, I believe that there was a group of Rockville swimmers next to the table who cheered when the Rays were announced.
While I agree with Dave G in his comments about the cyclical nature of the MCSL (and other swim leagues), I think there are even more bad feelings now about Rockville’s run compared to the runs of past MCSL dynasties. This has to do with a few reasons. The fact that the pool is public and not necessarily a neighborhood/community pool is one reason. Take a look at one of the posts above, where a parent says they commute from Poolesville as an example. Couple that with the fact that the team has such a close tie with the RMSC site located at the same pool and it breeds a perception of having a quasi-club team, rather than an MCSL team. The fact that a number of Rockville’s swimmers have transfered into and out of the team regularly also leads outsiders to perceive a lack of community feel to the Rockville pool. The rise of certain public pool teams in recent years (Bethesda, Upper County, Germantown, etc) has led many community pools to feel like these teams are not built the same way as the other league members. That being said, kudos to all of the individual kids on Rockville’s team – they have been performing at an incredibly high level for a few years now.
NMC Barracuda, it’s pretty obvious you were not at All Star Relays on Saturday morning.
Every pool (public and private) determines what fees families and individuals need to pay in order to have access to their pool. If a private pool thinks public pools have an advantage attracting swimmers because swimmers do not have to pay an annual due to belong to the pool, they are welcomed to go to a pay as you go fee structure. Even within the private pools, some like Woodley Gardens and East Gate offer a flat fee rate for the summer without a bond or capital improvement fee and other pools like Regency Estates try to get every penny they can out of their members.
I am proud to say public pool swim teams have a lot more diversity (both ethnically and social economically) than many of the private pools in MCSL. Many families in today’s economic climate cannot afford the fees most private pools charge. Should these kids not have the opportunity to participate in MCSL? FYI – not all the kids on the Rays team roster swim for RMSC.
Finally, shouldn’t the goal of winning championship meets mean you have to compete with the best? To complain that teams are losing to the best swimmers in the pool is just sour grapes and unsportsmanlike.
RMSC: Division “A” champions 3 years running!
First – I greatly respect both Rockville and RMSC (and we swim for neither). Rockville wins by having the fastest swimmers and nothing can make that happen except dedicated, hard working, and talented athletes. Everyone enjoys winning at every level, so we shouldn’t give Rockville a hard time for excelling or being competitive.
It seems like there are two leagues going on the MCSL – Division A and the rest. Division A is very competitive and exciting, but only changes very slightly every year – rotating a couple of lucky (or unlucky) teams into the group and chewing them up and back down a couple of divisions.
The rest of the league enjoys some level of equality in competition (although the black box that determines placement every year still confounds me). These teams get to shuffle around, enjoy a number of new pools every year, and pass old friends as they move up or down at the end of the season. I’m not saying one is better than the other, just that they seem to be slightly different experiences.
Finally, as far as demographic diversity goes at public vs. private pools, I just want everyone to know that many of the blonds at our pool have blue eyes and many others have green eyes.
I would rather swim in the MCSL/PVS league than the Princ-Mont or Country Club.
Our pool is neighborhood-based with a specific geographic territory for membership. We travel pretty happily as high as Division D, but more often between E and G, popping up or down one or two divisions each year (agreed on the mysterious nature of the “black box”). That is highly unlikely to change unless the pool opens to memberships from outside the geographic territory — but happily we have a thriving membership. The neighborhood, pool and team affiliation for our kids has been an absolute key part of their growing up and feeling of rootedness in our area. Our kids do swim year around and we get the high intensity with the club team. The summer swimming is fun fun fun, with the majority of participants getting their first and often their only taste of competitive swimming over those two months. They all care very much about competing well and winning whenever possible, but team affiliation and team spirit come first. I have to admit, looking at the intensity of the comments above, that I’m completely content for our team to remain very middle-rank. I would also note that, over the past 10 years, our team has been diverse and we have swum neighborhood pools covering a wide socio-economic diversity. The unifying factor with all has been the spirit of the kids, the dedication and welcome of the parents and coaches, and the fun it brings to all participants. Can’t wait until next year!
Would just like to point out that Mohican, who was in division G with Tally Ho, will also be moving up to division D and it is unfair that we are not mentioned at all.
It is interesting to read everyone’s comments, especially RV Dad and Von’s. My comments were about how spectators saw some of the best races in division G and how those 4 boys had raced each other for a few years. My comments had nothing to do with how they are compared to everyone in the area (and they are very good swimmers). I hope people just chill out and read everything carefully before going on to bash kids for showing spectators what close races are about. Enjoy the rest of the summer uptight parents.
There’s not one of the 4 boys listed who can’t compete with any/all of the division A swimmers. In fact theres only one swimmer who could be competitive with these four boys from Rv or TW- Garret Powell